Transcript of interview with David Straus and Heidi Straus by Barbara Tabach, November 6, 2015

AN INTERVIEW WITH DAVID AND HEIDI STRAUS An Oral History Conducted by Barbara Tabach Southern Nevada Jewish Heritage Project Oral History Research Center at UNLV University Libraries University of Nevada Las Vegas ii ?Southern Nevada Jewish Community Digital Heritage Project University of Nevada Las Vegas, 2014 Produced by: The Oral History Research Center at UNLV ? University Libraries Director: Claytee D. White Project Manager: Barbara Tabach Transcriber: Kristin Hicks Interviewers: Barbara Tabach, Claytee D. White Editors and Project Assistants: Maggie Lopes iii The recorded interview and transcript have been made possible through the generosity of a Library Services and Technology Act (LSTA) Grant. The Oral History Research Center enables students and staff to work together with community members to generate this selection of first-person narratives. The participants in this project thank University of Nevada Las Vegas for the support given that allowed an idea the opportunity to flourish. The transcript received minimal editing that includes the elimination of fragments, false starts, and repetitions in order to enhance the reader?s understanding of the material. All measures have been taken to preserve the style and language of the narrator. In several cases photographic sources accompany the individual interviews with permission of the narrator. The following interview is part of a series of interviews conducted under the auspices of the Southern Nevada Jewish Heritage Project. Claytee D. White Director, Oral History Research Center University Libraries University of Nevada Las Vegas iv PREFACE David and Heidi (Sarno) Straus are both Las Vegas natives though didn?t meet until a blind date in their mid-twenties. David Straus was born in 1964 to Joyce Straus, an artist, and Neil Straus, a doctor. After graduating from Clark High School, he attended the University of Arizona and then Whittier Law School. He has built a successful legal career focused on estate planning, asset protection and charitable planning. Heidi Straus was born in 1966 to Jay and Joyce Sarno, and spent much of her childhood in the gaming establishments founded by her father: Caesars Palace Hotel and Casino and Circus Circus Hotel and Casino. Early in her career, Heidi followed her father?s footsteps into hotel management. However, she soon switched gears, first owning and operating Las Vegas Flowers, and later becoming a gemologist, her current profession. The Straus? have two children, Jaye and Sander. In this interview, the Straus? discuss the joys of growing up in Las Vegas during the 1960s and 1970s, and the changes within the community over time, especially in educational opportunities. Both talk about Joyce Straus? career as artist and art educator, and the influence she had on their lives. They also remember Heidi?s father, Jay Sarno, and the impact he had on the local gaming industry. There is also discussion of the founding of Congregation Ner Tamid, the role of Jewish women?s philanthropy within the community, as well as the establishment of The Meadows School. v TABLE OF CONTENTS Interview with David and Heidi Straus On November 6, 2015 by Barbara Tabach in Las Vegas, Nevada Preface?????????????????????????????????..?..iv Share their family histories; about growing up in Las Vegas in Rancho Nevada Estates in 1960s and 70s and changes over the decades. Both talk about education paths; the establishment of The Meadows School and their involvement with school leadership; compare education options in city now versus during their childhoods. David recounts founding of Congregation Ner Tamid; mother?s participation in that process??????????????????????...1-7 Reflect on how they met; Heidi?s involvement with Jewish organizations; role of women?s philanthropy within community. Heidi talks about her father and his entrepreneurialism; her own hotel management career before owning flowers business and then becoming a gemologist. David describes his career path to estate planning, asset protection and charitable planning...8-12 Heidi talks about her current artwork, using gems, glass; getting inspiration from mother-in-law, Joyce Straus. Both talk about Joyce?s childhood, art career, including teaching; commissioned artwork for Ner Tamid; opening her home to tours. David talks about father and career as physician in Las Vegas; deciding to move to city and other Philadelphia transplants???.13-19 Heidi expands on growing up in Las Vegas, especially in Circus Circus Hotel and Casino. Discuss raising their children in city; more about Joyce?s artwork; what has kept them from moving to a different city, unlike most of their siblings. Heidi reflects on father?s impact on city, gaming industry??????????????????????????????20-27 Index........................................................................................................................................28-29 vi vii 1 This is Barbara Tabach. Today is November 6, 2015. I'm in the Straus home. Just did a whirlwind tour of Joyce Straus' art and all of that. That was beautiful, fascinating. I could tour here for hours. I'm with David and Heidi. If you would do me a favor, just state your names and spell them for me. David Straus; D-A-V-I-D, S-T-R-A-U-S. Heidi Straus, S-T-R-A-U-S. And Heidi is...? H-E-I-D-I. Okay. We were just talking about Jewish ancestry. If you were telling your kids what you know about your roots, what do you know? I know that half of my family came from Hungary and half came from Russia. My upbringing, we were not really very religious; however, my parents made us go to Sunday school every Sunday and I was in bar mitzvah. I was one of the first bar mitzvah-ed in the first class at Congregation Ner Tamid with Rabbi Stephen Weisberg. My parents just wanted us to be bar mitzvah-ed, at least the boys and my youngest sister Karen. But my older sister Susie was never bat mitzvah-ed and now Susie is married to a cantor in Northbrook, Illinois. To Cantor Stephen Stoehr. It's interesting how she teaches Hebrew every week and she was the only child not bat mitzvah-ed. My mother was on the board of Temple Beth Sholom when they used to be on Oakey. A lot of her artwork, as you've seen, has a Judaica theme. I don't think she was that religious, but she was spiritual, but she did identify with Eve and she does a lot of her pieces about Eve and Adam and their garden. She did a Jewish holidays coloring book and that's in the gallery, and she also did another Jewish coloring book for...I don't know if it's holidays or something else. Those were published in the seventies. She did some cards, too, that were Judaica oriented. 2 Our upbringing after you were bar , you do what you chose. My older sister and younger sister chose to practice religion and the boys took a little less retreat. But it was important for Heidi and I [that] our son and daughter be bar and bat mitzvah and learn the culture of Judaism as their upbringing. And if they chose to make it important to them, they would. I totally understand that. I have a similar type of story. It's a culture as much as it is a religion. It's hard to explain to people sometimes. So you grew up in this neighborhood, right? This is Rancho Nevada? Yes, Rancho Nevada Estates. You both grew up in this neighborhood. Yes. My mother's house was six houses from here, from David's house. I knew his family's name, Straus, and they knew our family, too, but we didn't know each other and we met on a blind date in our mid-twenties. Her mid, my late. She's younger. I'm an older man. Did you both ever talk about growing up in this neighborhood? Did you have similar or different experiences? Oh, yes. Heidi's was more?I was chasing lizards, building forts under Spanish Oaks and using wrist rockets and stuff, and Heidi was being shuttled in fancy transportation to and from wherever she was going because her father was in the casino business. My mother lived in this neighborhood. During the week, Monday through Friday, we had a very normal life. I would ride my bike up and down the street every single day and I'm sure I saw David, but I didn't know him. Our mothers knew each other. 3 Our mothers knew each other and were members of the Sisterhood at Beth Sholom and even did a couple of fashion shows together. But on the weekends, I would stay at the hotel; I would stay at Circus [Circus Hotel and Casino]. That must have been a unique experience. I know you've been interviewed on that in other situations. Yes. If we touch upon that and repeat that, it's okay if it's okay with you. So what schools did you go to? What's the neighborhood schools here? I went to Las Vegas Day School. The bus came down the street here and picked up me, Tony Abbatangelo who was a judge, and picked up Sullivan kids, and Debuff, and sometimes just a lot of families still around. Names that are sprinkled throughout this history as well as other projects that we do. What year did the Straus family come to Vegas, do you know? I think 1962. And you would have been? I was born in '64, so I was born here. Okay, you're born and raised. I'm born and raised, and so is Heidi. We're both natives. Born in the same hospital. Women's Hospital over on Sahara. And the doctor who delivered him, Dr. Joe Rojas, Sr., his son Joe, the OB/GYN, and Joe's wife, also OB/GYN, delivered our two children. So his dad signed my birth certificate and? 4 His son signed our children's birth certificates. That's great. What would you tell people about growing up in Las Vegas starting in the sixties and seventies? Children don't see anything different. They just are in the moment. We had no idea of the enormity of the growth and the things that were going on here. I think every child sees it the same way. My husband and I could probably attest to that. Yes. I remember Panorama Market on Charleston that had home delivery by the Levy family, Al Levy. I work out with his son, Drew Levy, every morning at the 24 Hour Fitness. Just a smaller city. You could walk places. It seemed safer. We left our bikes out front, never a problem. Eventually they gated this community. A few of the old families here said we need to gate it for more security. Oh, I see. So it wasn't gated originally. Not even close. They just did that maybe ten years ago or so. Not everybody was onboard. There were a lot of old families that weren't used to an HOA and a monthly. I think it was founded by Roundup Realty, a guy named Dean Petersen. He used to live over here on Alta in the Westward Ho Casino and then the Collins family built a lot of the homes in this neighborhood, also, old Las Vegas historically. Did you stay here, David, for college and everything? No. I went to Arizona for college, then law school in L.A., and lived in Europe for a while, in Austria and Germany. Heidi went to school in Switzerland after she graduated from USC and she studied [at a] hotelier school. After Las Vegas Day School, my mother got remarried and moved away, so I lived with my father. 5 I spent one year at Gorman living with Jay Sarno. I had no supervision. It was a little crazy. So I enrolled myself in an all-girls boarding school that my sister had been sent to. From there I did my undergrad at USC and then I went to Switzerland for hotel school. I came home in '93 and I met David on a blind date. That's how it worked. Interesting. It was kind of interesting. Yes. I could just pick your brain about that for a long time. That's fascinating. We didn't have a lot of schools back then. Your choice for private school was only [Bishop] Gorman, which is why Carolyn Goodman founded the Meadows School, which is where our children [went]...One has graduated and one is about to graduate from there. We sit on the board at the Meadows School. Tell me about the Meadows School since you've brought that up. I don't have the total history of how that all started. In 1984. I think it was founded on a tennis court. A bunch of people were not happy with [what] their choices were to send their children. So they found a brilliant woman, Dr. LeOre Cobbley, at a public school. She had a special program and I think she might have taught one of Carolyn's kid. She did. They lured her into starting this new school. Howard Hughes Corporation was behind it and gave them all the acreage, the forty plus acres we have in Summerlin today. It was the only building. We are the oldest building in Summerlin, the Meadows School. There were no roads, nothing, until a father had to bring their child to school. His Jaguar was hitting rocks and stones and he said, "I'm going to ply up the goddamn road." So that was how that got built, one by one, just 6 parent by parent, one ask at a time. How many students are in that school now? Eight hundred and twenty. David knows that because he's the treasurer of the school. I'm the treasurer. I would say the Meadows School is really a boarding school while living at home. It's the rigorous curriculum like they had Back East at some of the oldest schools in the country except it's in Las Vegas and you can have your children live with you while they get that kind of education. That's pretty cool. It's amazing. If it's right for your child, it's a great gift you can give to them. If it's not right, then we have great schools. Hebrew Academy is excellent and Gorman is excellent. We have a lot of great private and public schools. It's nice to have choices. It's nice to have choices, exactly. There are alternatives here. There are now. But there weren't when you guys were growing up. Not in our day. There were six or seven high schools when I graduated here. I went to [grammar] school...It was called West Charleston; it's now Howard Wasden; then Hyde Park Junior High, which is a leading magnet now for high schools. It's a rigorous junior high now. Then I went to Clark High School. But there were only a couple of handfuls of high schools. So there wasn't a choice. But there was only one temple when we were little and there was Ner Tamid where David was bar 7 mitzvah-ed, but he was one of the first bar mitzvah classes. But in our day growing up all there was was Temple Beth Sholom behind Gorman over there on St. Louis. My mom helped found Ner Tamid. She was on the first board. I remember the temple. It was less than a mile from here. It was across from Howard Wasden. It was in a church. It started raining horribly or something happened with the sukkah there. They got everybody to carry a leg of the sukkah, and walked it to our backyard, the whole synagogue. Then she held the whole little Sukkot in our yard that year. I remember they left it there the whole week. They said, "But, Joyce, we have to bring classes down every few days to come see it." She said, "I don't mind. I'm close enough that you can do it." She had an open door policy. She didn't care. Where was Ner Tamid located at that time? It was right here on Pinto right across [from] the Salvation Army, less than half a mile from here. That was where Ner Tamid was founded. How did it come about? Do you know any of the history? Yes. Dr. Kirshbaum and I believe Supreme Court Justice Mike Cherry, and my mother and a few other people in the community said that we need an alternative to Beth Sholom. We're members of Beth Sholom now. But they needed some kind of alternative and so they founded the temple. Because it was conservative and they? It was conservative and my mom wanted to investigate reform because my brother was already bar mitzvah-ed from Beth Sholom and my sister never was. Maybe it was something to do with her getting it done because by the time I was bar mitzvah-ed, and my sister and brother were, we were all Ner Tamid. And now she's married to a cantor. So there you go. The sister who wasn't [bat mitzvah-ed] is married to a cantor who's been doing it thirty plus years. 8 He goes around the country and world and sings and does tapes, and very well known in the cantorial community. When I came home to Las Vegas, I ran into Sandy Mallin, whose husband, Stan, was my dad's college buddy and partner in many hotels. She goes, "Give me your phone number." I had no idea why, but I said, "Sure." She is the one who had David Straus call me. So I'm grateful for Sandy. She introduced me to my husband. And Sandy is the one who kept telling me I needed to interview you. I didn't know that reason. She's been very helpful on this project. She made the hamotzi. She blessed the hallah at our wedding. Yes, she did. That's very cool. Were either of you involved in any of the Jewish youth organizations? My oldest brother and my youngest sister. My brother was in AZA when he was young and my youngest sister was in the same kind of group. But my brother and I never were and my sister Susie never was. I wasn't involved in any Jewish [youth organizations] in Las Vegas. I was involved in the eighties very strongly in Beverly Hills with my sister founding Young Leadership for Bar-Ilan University and doing a lot for Hebrew University and the Caravan to Israel with all the older people and got bat mitzvah-ed there together. But until I got to Las Vegas in '93 in my mid-twenties, I wasn't involved. Sandy Mallin got me on the women's philanthropy of the Jewish Federation and I'm still on it today. I am a past chairwoman, do a lot of events with them, and try to keep our community. Heidi redid the Lion of Judah or one of the? Many of those. She worked on several. 9 Talk a little bit more about the women's philanthropy. What is the purpose and how do you impact the community? I think a lot of women direct their husbands as to where they're going to give to. The women direct the monies most of the time. Our larger givers at the Federation are women. If we count which side of the board, it's women give more than the men do. Women's philanthropy right now, we've just got a new director. We've had a lot of turnover in directors. I think it's not easy to run a women's Jewish organization on the administrative side because there's a lot of strong personalities here, as you roll your eyes. Yes. You know. If you look at the wall of our past chairwomen, we've got Carolyn Goodman, Roberta Sabbath, Lynn Rosencrantz, we've got so many?Faye Steinberg, Sharie Sigesmund. I don't want to leave anybody out, but it's a strong group. So you can imagine rallying those women and then the community to give. Why do you think that is that there's such this cluster of strong women in the Jewish community? I don't know. We got it from our mothers maybe and they got it from their mothers. I think it's in our culture. It must be. Sometimes to get things done you've got to be tough. Was your dad involved in Temple Beth Sholom? I am the baby of the family, so I can't speak firsthand. But I can tell you that my mother enrolled?I have three siblings?my brother, Jay, who's the oldest; then my sister September; then Freddie; then me. Jay and September were in Beth Sholom in the youth programs. My mother did it to please my father because my mother was only half-Jewish. She was raised kind of with both and it wasn't a priority. Her father was Jewish. My father, after not seeming to care that much or 10 appreciate it, she stopped putting in the effort, unfortunately. So we were never bar and bat mitzvah-ed until I said that I went to Jerusalem with my sister and we had a B'nai mitzvah there. But my father was raised very Jewish. His family came from Poland somewhere around 1913. His father came first and a few years later sent for the mother and some of the children. Then they ended up being raised in Saint Joe, Missouri. I think Stan told me some of that history about University of Missouri. They both went to University of Missouri. I believe my father was the president of the Jewish fraternity there. He was a character at University of Missouri. He was a businessman. Yes, he ran any of the gaming that would happen in school. He also was clever and would set up pylons with no authorization and charge for parking at the foothall games. That's great. He would run the dry-cleaning business. Whatever you needed, he would make it happen. So he was the guy. Did you get some of your entrepreneurial spirit from your father? I believe so; I do. Talk about your business career. After you graduated, what did you start doing? After I finished hotel school, I worked for Steve Wynn for two years in his management program at the hotel. Then I came home late at night and I saw my fianc? David lying there and I was about to get married and I said, "I don't think the casino business is going to work out well." I've never seen it work out well for anybody in my whole life especially on the women's side in gaming. So I resigned from there. I ran a business when my children were small, but nothing too major. Now that my children are out, I have a gem lab. I'm a gemologist. I appraise and value, and do a little buy and 11 sell of fine jewelry. I read something about...Did you do flowers? I had Las Vegas Flowers and that was before the internet. Everybody would call information in those days and say, "Give me a flower shop." Well, what name? "Well, how about Las Vegas Flowers or Las Vegas Florist?" I owned both of those names, so I got all the calls. I was very busy. Then she sold her business. Then I sold it to a gal who did not keep it going. How did you get into gemology? What do you call that when you're a gemologist? You have to study with a GIA and become a gemologist. But then I'm studying valuation science and it helps valuating jewelry for estates. It doesn't hurt that I'm married to an estate attorney. A lot of estates need that kind of valuation. I have my whole life been collecting and been aware. So I can put the two together. Very cool. So your career, David. How did you decide to become an attorney when you were surrounded by all this art? Weren't all you kids destined to be artists? Not really. When I went to college, I went to a small Catholic school my first semester and I put either I was going into dermatology or tax lawyer and I wrote "tax law." So that got me into accounting. I went to the University of Arizona. I had a bachelor of science in business and got an accounting degree and my CPA. Then I went to law school at Whittier College School of Law. Then I got an LLM in taxation, which is a master of laws after law school. Then two and a half years ago when I was at Rare Law Book School in Yale University, I heard about this program to get an LLM in entertainment and media law from Southwestern University in L.A. and signed up 12 two and a half summers ago. I graduated in December after two and a half years and then I'll have another masters of law. I do estate planning and asset protection and a lot of charitable planning. About 40 percent of my practice is charitable planning and design of cases. I'm an artist myself; I draw my name to every canvas I do and I've been drafting my own stuff for twenty-five years. Explain that. I'm not sure if I follow that. Everybody is an artist in their own way. I see. That's what my mother taught us. Anyone who is a baker, they're an artist in the way they create their creations. I'm an artist in the way I listen to clients and customize and draft what's important for them for living, while they're alive if they want to stay in their homes or travel or beluga Caviar, Cristal Champagne, whatever your passions are, to how your stuff passes to your children and how you do charitable planning and designs. [I] become creative by listening and see people's stuff and show them ways to get around estate tax and save gift tax and income tax and just be creative. It's an art form. Yes. So that's a gift from your mother, then. I did four Picassos just last year. I did over ten figures of drafting just last year and was blessed to be able to help families do that. I would have probably never recognized that everyone is an artist in their own way and she instilled that in people. When they came here they would leave saying, "I have that extra room. I never thought about photography and now I'm good." Because my mother did some photography, also. She just taught everyone to be passionate about what you're doing. Heidi has made some amazing pieces. I have one in my office that was my grandmother's old bed. 13 I'm making a piece out of gemstones right now while we talk. I've taken agates and mother-of-pearl and I'm making a floral?I'm combining the flower business, if you will, and these are gemstones, calcite stones and coral and mother-of-pearl. That's beautiful. I don't know. Just trying to marry it all. She made one flower garden at our house that took six, seven months and weighs a couple hundred? Nine months. Out of fused glass because my mother-in-law gave me the glass studio in the back years and years ago. It was a way for us to be together, but I didn't want to do any of the mediums that she was working in. I was really just into glass. She goes, "Enjoy it; it's all yours." He gave me a kiln for Mother's Day. I poured a fortune worth of glass and I just fused away. I made a big, giant...I broke my foot making that. Yes, you did. It's in our living room. She also did a coral reef. I have a coral reef in my office with hundreds plus species of coral. She made a fused glass out of a steel sculpture. She designed the canvas. It's a steel sculpture with a glass fusion all over it. Whoever comes to my office just can't believe it. They want to commission her, but she doesn't want to do it. I never studied art. Did you feel like you were artistic before you got into this family? No. But Joyce made me feel that I had it. You just had to find it, get over your fear, the fear of somebody saying they didn't like it or a fear of somebody not saying, "Oh, that's nice," or they just walk by and go, "Uh." That's just their opinion. She said, "Do you like it? Does it make you happy? And if it makes you happy..." This happens to make me smile and that's all that matters. If no one comments...You might think it's garbage. I don't care. It makes me happy. So that's 14 what art is. That's why my mom made garbage pieces, to show that... That you can make beauty out of that. Yes. She told us that we can. She told us that it's okay. How about that? That's wonderful. I like the way that looks like that. I like the feeling of that, too. Yes, that came perfect. Tell me her history. I know there's a website and articles written about her. What is the background to Joyce Straus' story? She was born in Philadelphia, like my dad was, and they met when they were eighteen. I'm going to pause here. My battery is going low. [Pause in recording] Joyce gave us permission to take a risk, but it's okay, which is why children loved coming here. They just couldn't wait to get back here. She made them feel so strong. How old were you when she started teaching classes? Like ten years old. Then I never would go into her classes. I just wasn't interested and I had my own life. But when you're young you don't know any better, and then when you're older you learn. What's interesting with her is she grew up and she was a great tap dancer. She was also into children and teaching. Her teacher in kindergarten asked her to draw an apple or? A cow. You tell the story. You know it probably better than I. She grew up in the city of Philadelphia. She did not grow up on a farm. She just grew up in the 15 hustle and the bustle. She was in second or third grade. They wanted to get some artwork up on the walls. Parents' night was coming at her school. They asked each child to draw a cow. [Pause in recording] Just make the art for yourself and don't do it for the approval of other people. Make what pleases you and what feels right to you even if it doesn't feel right to everybody. If you take away that, that just takes away the fear, the fear of rejection. A lot of people just fear rejection. So they make things to please whoever they're with or an art dealer or the art market or whatever it is. Just make what pleases you, which is what Joyce lived by. So she started as an artist...You had asked me how she got started, right? Yes. She grew up in Philadelphia in the hustle bustle of the city. When she was asked to draw a cow as a little girl, the only cow she had ever seen was the one that they had hanging on the wall at the butcher shop by the cuts of beef?the brisket, the flank, the shank, the whatever, rumpus. So she drew hers in a grid like the butcher man had. Her teacher called the parents. No other child drew one like that. She said, "She's a terrible artist and she really needs to take dancing lessons or something, but she has no future in art." Well, she taught them a thing or two if you look at this house and you look at her career. So don't listen to anybody else. Don't look for anybody's approval. Just look inside and see if it's right. That's a great story. Her thousands of young students and older students were taught this and many of them have gone on to become well-paid artists, big earners, have studios. Some of them are on a national level even, without getting into names. She believed that everybody was an artist. You just had to get rid of the fear, find that right medium and find that place, and one day it will hit you. 16 David, you were talking when you were touring me around that she had Judaic flavor to some of her art, but more of a spiritual influence. Yes. Heidi knows about like some of the Adam and Eve stuff. She was enamored by the Adam and Eve theme. You can see it in many of her batiks, many of her sculptures. There's some drawings on the other side of the room. Her snakes, I mean all of those stuffed plush. Her collection of Adam and Eve over there with the apples. Even she has the Judith Leiber snake bag, which I have now, the serpent. There probably wasn't a big market for that. But we had to get the serpent, oh, we had to. For Ner Tamid, she did a lot of the artwork in the original church over here when Ner Tamid was open so they could cover the cross inside of the sanctuary. My mother did a batik that they let us put over the cross so whenever they had services. She did the artwork for Ner Tamid, the first few pieces. I'm sure they may still have some left. But it was basic?she was just starting?and kind of interesting. I wonder, did they take some of those pieces to the new location? I don't even know. I've gone a few times and looked, but I haven't seen anything. They maybe just gave them away or something. If you go to the building on Valley View and Campbell, in the lobby the whole wall is done in her sculpture. She had commissions around town. She did a lot of the Steinberg Diagnostics lobbies. Since then they may have redecorated. But she's in a lot of homes, not just here. Supreme Court Justice Miriam Shearing had Joyce do a couple of her homes, her Lake Tahoe home and some pieces here. She and Steve Shearing were some of her biggest orders. How did teaching happen? You just opened your doors one day or...? 17 Mary Dombrowski down the street?I was telling you her husband, Dr. Dombrowski, was one of the first plastic surgeons in Las Vegas?came and she had three girls. She said, "Joyce, I think you're really talented and like your philosophy on life. Would you please teach my daughters?" Her first class was her three daughters, Marcy Murdock and a few other people from Las Vegas. That's when she started teaching children. Eventually, one class led to three children's classes that led to two adult classes a week to six kids' classes a week and just grew and grew. That's when she started getting in the tour business. Karen Gordon had a tour company and asked her and said, "Joyce, we think out-of-state people would really like to see your home." She's given tours to like Sun Microsystems, Ritz-Carlton and Consumer Electronics. They would all get a tour bus; the wives would come here. She would give her lecture and it's on YouTube. You can go on YouTube and see all about her. I'll give you a video where she was on the Ed Bernstein Show two days in a row. That's how it started. You can have this here. Oh, wow. Thank you. You're welcome. You can see her philosophies and ideologies about relationship and marriage. She had an answer, really, for everything. She was a realist. Yes. She had an answ